Notes on the elements of a powerful ending:
Since it's Sunday, I expect I won't get much give-and-take on this: people tend to be more talky on Mondays and least talky on the weekends, but I'm at the ref desk and in dire need of entertainment, so I'm putting it up.
Notes on the elements of a powerful ending:
What other things go into creating powerful endings for you? For me, something doesn't always have to be bittersweet - in the book Bridge of Birds, the ending is unabashedly, gloriously, over-the-top fairy-tale, but I think it's because it's piled on so thick that I think it works. But I haven't run across anything like that in manga yet. :D
ETA: And obviously, the focus is more on manga and anime, but bring books in if you want, like I did above. I think Lord of the Rings is the canonical exmaple that everyone by now knows of for the powerful, bittersweet ending, with the notion that sacrifice is real, and that the person who makes the greatest sacrifice is not the person who reaps the most rewards: and that it has to be that way for the sacrifice to mean something.
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Because this is such a minefield since we're all in various stages of having-seen and not-having-seen anime and manga, if you discuss particular series, PLEASE USE SPOILER PROTECTION - extra space isn't enough, preferably use color-on-color, like this:
<span style="color: #999999;background-color: #999999">Spoilery text goes here.</span>
which produces:
Spoilery text goes here.
And mention which series you're spoiling first, so we know not to highlight it. :) If you fail to use spoiler protection for plot points, I'm deleting the comment.
ETA: If you can't highlight, it's apparently a glitch in the new LJ Horizon thing. Details here in the comments.
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Princess Tutu:
This is the series that got me thinking this way - Duck (and Fakir as well) succeeds in her stated goal, which is to rescue the Prince, but she sacrifices her human self and her chance at human love. Fakir retires to a small cottage with her duck-self, which is a shadow of the happiness that they - and we - wanted.
Fullmetal Alchemist:
Ed gets his brother's body back, at the sacrifice of becoming trapped in our world. (I'm at work right now and got distracted when composing this, so I forgot what else I was going to put here.)
Death Note (spoilers for chapter 58 as well):
DN had a sort of unsatisfying ending, but I'm not sure it could have been any better. Light got to go out like the ranting, raving villain that he was, but there wasn't any real denouement or catharsis. It was more affecting back in chapter 58 when L died, because he learned that he was proven right, as he lay dying - a big sacrifice there, especially since so much of his work was left undone. At the final end, the sacrifice is Mello's, but he's not really been a central sympathetic character for so long, and his deliberate choice of sacrifice is revealed only in flashback, so that it's removed from us emotionally. Near doesn't sacrifice a thing, and yet wins on the backs of other people's sacrifices so he's not an especially sympathetic hero.
Notes on the elements of a powerful ending:
- The characters do not get everything they wanted/needed/fought for - bittersweet, rather than fully triumphant. A sacrifice is all-too-real.
- Not everything is explained - questions are left open for the viewer's/reader's mind to wander about it.
What other things go into creating powerful endings for you? For me, something doesn't always have to be bittersweet - in the book Bridge of Birds, the ending is unabashedly, gloriously, over-the-top fairy-tale, but I think it's because it's piled on so thick that I think it works. But I haven't run across anything like that in manga yet. :D
ETA: And obviously, the focus is more on manga and anime, but bring books in if you want, like I did above. I think Lord of the Rings is the canonical exmaple that everyone by now knows of for the powerful, bittersweet ending, with the notion that sacrifice is real, and that the person who makes the greatest sacrifice is not the person who reaps the most rewards: and that it has to be that way for the sacrifice to mean something.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because this is such a minefield since we're all in various stages of having-seen and not-having-seen anime and manga, if you discuss particular series, PLEASE USE SPOILER PROTECTION - extra space isn't enough, preferably use color-on-color, like this:
<span style="color: #999999;background-color: #999999">Spoilery text goes here.</span>
which produces:
Spoilery text goes here.
And mention which series you're spoiling first, so we know not to highlight it. :) If you fail to use spoiler protection for plot points, I'm deleting the comment.
ETA: If you can't highlight, it's apparently a glitch in the new LJ Horizon thing. Details here in the comments.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Princess Tutu:
This is the series that got me thinking this way - Duck (and Fakir as well) succeeds in her stated goal, which is to rescue the Prince, but she sacrifices her human self and her chance at human love. Fakir retires to a small cottage with her duck-self, which is a shadow of the happiness that they - and we - wanted.
Fullmetal Alchemist:
Ed gets his brother's body back, at the sacrifice of becoming trapped in our world. (I'm at work right now and got distracted when composing this, so I forgot what else I was going to put here.)
Death Note (spoilers for chapter 58 as well):
DN had a sort of unsatisfying ending, but I'm not sure it could have been any better. Light got to go out like the ranting, raving villain that he was, but there wasn't any real denouement or catharsis. It was more affecting back in chapter 58 when L died, because he learned that he was proven right, as he lay dying - a big sacrifice there, especially since so much of his work was left undone. At the final end, the sacrifice is Mello's, but he's not really been a central sympathetic character for so long, and his deliberate choice of sacrifice is revealed only in flashback, so that it's removed from us emotionally. Near doesn't sacrifice a thing, and yet wins on the backs of other people's sacrifices so he's not an especially sympathetic hero.
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The strength of the PT ending for me is how the crushing blow of the "bittersweet" ending as you described it (which if that was really all it was, it would have been too heartbreaking for me to connect to) is in term countered by the "questions are left open" aspect--it's a story ending so a new one can begin, a very hopeful new story at that, for Fakir and Ahiru and everyone else.
Ahiru could stay forever as a duck, or she could not (or Fakir could be a duck!), or they could both die horribly, or something else could happen...but it's so clear that the story goes on from there.
It's a series (with an ending) that's relentlessly about what it's about and has the ending that feels inevitable and better than you could have come up with on your own.
I'm going to have to think about other endings I love, because Princess Tutu and the Fullmetal Alchemist anime pretty much top the list for me.
Well, here's one.
Angel, "Not Fade Away" (which is the perfect title on so many levels): Ending in media res, abrupt and leaving us always wanting more, the exciting agonizing eternal indecision of the lady or the tiger, the comforting certainty that whatever their fates, the characters you love are doing what they love, exactly where they want to be. Same old same old. "Let's go to work."
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I love that it leaves everyone with their own interpretation; some fervently believe that even Wesley will somehow come back from the dead, since it's the Whedonverse, and look at Darla, but others (me included) think pretty much everyone except maybe Illyria is doomed.
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I think I perfer endings that aren't the typical "happily ever after". As well as endings that are resolved, but open. (Mostly because I have a soft spot for sequels even if they suck.) I can't think of a good anime ending now so I'll go with the movie comparison Shrek. It's not typical, it's not purely happy, and there were a lot of people who didn't agree with it.
One of my favorite books, The Last Unicorn is the same way. Everything is resolved, but no one is skipping through the meadows happy. In your heart you know exactly what happened after the story ends, but it is open enough for you to dream anything you like.
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I can't think of any specific examples right now, but I'll ponder it and take a look at some of my favorite books and animes/mangas. The ending is almost always my favorite part of any book or series. If the ending sucks, I won't like the rest of the book or series, no matter how good it was.
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Antique Bakery:
Antique Bakery doesn't have a really powerful ending, but it's not a really powerful gut-punch of a series, and the ending fits, with the characters making a few decisions about their lives, and looking forward to the future. Even the Big Question of the series - Whatshisface's kidnapping as a child - gets answered in a completely different way than expected, and ends up being a beginning, rather than an ending.
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I've been rereading my old copies of Battle Angel Alita, and while the ending didn't strike me as hard as it did when I was a teen, I could still see why it was one of my favorites.
In the original ending, immediately before Alita sacrifices her life to keep Tiphares from falling out of the sky, she stands in space and looks back down on Earth. She thinks to herself, "I've never been so lonely, or so sad..."
Alita's life has been full of violence. She knows Earth as a cruel and dirty place, but from space, she sees it as beautiful. And as her home, which ties into the themes of home and family that are really important in the series (Alita gains and loses both more than once).
The conflict between Tiphares and the Scrapyard is also important to the series, and by saving both, the ending also ties into that.
Another thing that made those few pages one of my favorites is the way that Alita is drawn. She's a cyborg, but her features change throughout the series from childlike to more mature. As she's looking out over space, she looks more like a woman and less like a girl. It's like the culmination of all the personal growth that she's gone through.
I don't like what follows as much as the moments right before she sacrifices herself. Tiphares and the Scrapyard are united too easily. And when she's brought back it shakes a lot of the impact loose, even though the question of who Alita will be now that she's not a cyborg is an interesting one.
Of course it was a rush job when the author was not quite right in the head.
So what made me like this ending so much wasn't just the sacrifice that Alita made, but the way it pulled together a lot of the elements in the series, even though it didn't resolve them.
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I was going to say that at least in some cases an emotional resolution is much more satisfying than a plot one, but that's not quite what I was trying to say. Hrm. But I think it may be true - I posted a comment above about Antique Bakery, which seems to fit with that.
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"Angelic Days"? Still stupidly awesome.
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Like, suppose there's this story where the plucky heroine is sad because she is a beet farmer and the boy she likes is the Prince and the good guys keep saying/thinking things to the extent of, "It doesn't matter, love conquers all!" while the bad guys are saying, "You will never be able to get along because of class conflict and there will be divorce lawyers with unpleasant facial hair!" The two safe endings are 1) They live happily ever after with a re-stating of the "love conquers all" theme by a major character at the pivotal moment, like a fairly good English paper (see: mostly serious fantasy/romance novels), and 2) The Prince turns out to be kind of a bigoted snot after all and she ditches him (see: mostly comedy fantasy/romance novels).
Which is okay, but it doesn't merit caps-lock and slamming your hand down on the keyboard.
Whereas a h@rdkor! ending would involve hauling up something that hadn't already been discussed to death - it answers a question rather than re-stating a thesis. Like maybe the plucky heroine has also been worried about the political status of the MtF transvestite community in the Prince's magical city (I should kind of be researching okama right now, by the way) and none of the good guys have yet had any sort of a conclusive conversation about the issue. The h@rdkor! ending would in some way haul that up and involve it and say something very deep and important about both that and the major theme.
(And preferably the heroine would turn out to be a Japanese transvestite so that I could then use the book as a primary source. (see: Pokemon Adventures))
And this is relevant to, uh, my original thing about Battle Angel Alita because (assume spoilers all the way through volume 7 of Last Order):
The Big Thing in the series is identity - Alita stumbles around questioning who she was before the amnesia and why she's so good at killing people and why she enjoys it so much. In doing so, she gets involved in politics and worries about abuse of power and stuff, though never as seriously as she does about her own problems.
At the climax, she regains enough of her memory to discover that she had been one of the people she hated, just in time to be thrust into a position of absolute power. (Or technically two of them, I guess.) Her choice is to sacrifice herself, rather than returning to the man she loves and possibly, in time, regaining the rest of her memory and achieving her goal of being the Ultimate Warrior.
This is much more hardcore than if she'd just regained all of her memory and completely accepted/completely rejected her former life - that sort of thing is why people tend to be let down by much-built-up revelations-of-secret-pasts when they finally come. (The Bitterbynde trilogy is what I'm thinking off right off.) And it's why this Alita's Secret Past Revelation works better than the ret-conned new one in Last Order, despite that one being cooler - it's just context and didn't do anything new, particularly since it's still pretty similar the last one, and we've been through some of this already.
(Though I did pretty much hate the epilogue.)
Anyway. That got really long, so I hope there was a coherent point in there someplace.
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Am I the only one who liked the ending? (seems so)
Death Note's ending is sure different from everything else I have seen. At first, I was really shocked about Mello's death, it was made in a way that I didn't even feel he was dead (I started crying a lot a week later when I understood he was really gone (^o^;;; ), that and the "lack of emotions" from the person he sacrificed himself for (which is not lack of emotion, it's just you must know Near in order to get an idea of what's going on with him and to understand how big this tragedy is). But when I think about it, I find such coldness really interesting. Death Note is the only manga I read where characters die as if nothing, and they don't really need a very tragic scene full of pages and tears from everyone! That's because I think this manga is something you must discover yourself, since main plot is always the book.
Characters feelings, relationships, secrets and affairs (*coughs*) are secondary, and many of them are only hinted and hidden, just like the tragedy of their deaths. Only those who want to discover how big the tragedy is (along with discovering the characters themselves), will do so. Which is interesting and fun to me as reader, as I have found out many things about Mello and Near (*coughs*) I never noticed before.
And about it being very open, that's great as well! Hence we are all excited waiting for vol.13 now (*o*)
Uu... sorry about this long post (^^; When it comes to Death Note, I can't stop myself...
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I think for me a powerful ending is when a main character willingly choses to do something they believe is right/ their duty without being pushed in to it. Often this consists of a conscious decision to chose between two (or more) things they want at the expense of the other(s). This decision doesn't necessarily makes them happy, but if it doesn't then it does satisfy them in some other way. I think this is what makes the end of Escaflowne so good. It always makes me tear up a little because Hitomi chooses to go home
unlike a normal person XDbecause she thinks that's what she should do, not because she was pre-ordained to or because anyone told her to get lost. It was also powerful because Hitomi and Van loved each other and despite that she still decided to go and (importantly) Van let her without laying on any guilt-trip because he thought it was right that she follow her heart. Also when Hitomi is leaving it shows all the other characters looking towards the beam of light and saying their goodbyes, showing that they also care for her and though they may be sad to see her go they don't resent her choice (even Merle who is so protective of Van). I think I can only tolerate 'mushiness' if it has that bittersweet tang to it :DI agree that bittersweet endings and stories that don't wrap up every single plot make a powerful impact on me. I think this is because it's easier to relate to them (no matter how weird and wonderful the story may have been), because life doesn't often contain proper 'happily ever after' scenarios. Nor do I think many eventful occurances manage to wrap themselves up in neatly self-contained packages for our enjoyment (because life would be so much simpler if they did!)